Sairam vikas iyer has joined the conference. anantvemuri: SAIRAM G Balasubramanian: I am already on the other window PRATAP THAKKER: Loving sairams to all G Balasubramanian: SaiRAMs G Balasubramanian: To all anantvemuri: SAIRAM rajiv_clarkson has joined the conference. G Balasubramanian: SaiRam, Can we start? anantvemuri: certainly G Balasubramanian: May I suggest we try voice? Meena Motwani has left the conference. Meena Motwani has joined the conference. PRATAP THAKKER: MAY V NOW START WITH 3 OMKARS? anantvemuri: yes.. PRATAP THAKKER: Auuuuuummmmmmmmm........................ PRATAP THAKKER: Aummmmmmm................................. PRATAP THAKKER: Auuuummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...................................... G Balasubramanian: Sai Ram. My humble suggestion is that our discussions may remain within the boumdaries of the topic of the day Meena Motwani: yes Meena Motwani: no PRATAP THAKKER: topic : WHERE IS GOD G Balasubramanian: Together let us search the whereabouts of God and find out his permanent address, PRATAP THAKKER: reminder: late comers to join silently...no sairam sairam again PRATAP THAKKER: ok? G Balasubramanian: Let us invoke the Grace of Swamy PRATAP THAKKER: yes Sir padswami: Swami will speak thru each one of us .Educare ...from within rajiv_clarkson: hari vaapak sarvatra samaanaa,prema te prakat hohi main jaana...tulsida G Balasubramanian: This question will elicit a wide range of answers if put to people of different levels of evolution padswami: English please rajiv_clarkson: meaning God is omnipresent and equally present but u can see him only with Prema-true love n devotion G Balasubramanian: An aetheist (Nastik or non-believer ) will reply, 'Is there god at all? G Balasubramanian: First tell me wo is God and convince me about his Existence G Balasubramanian: Then I will tell you where he is. padswami: swami says when some one says God is Nowhere ..it is actually God is Now Here PRATAP THAKKER: yes rajiv_clarkson: very well said padswami: God is superconscience the basis the origin that makes all beings function PRATAP THAKKER: now the q. is : " where is GOD?" G Balasubramanian: A common man will say God exists in Heaven, Kailasa or Vaikunta padswami: God is here and everywhere within each of us ... G Balasubramanian: Some others will say God is in Temples, churches, Gurdwarsa Masjids etc. PRATAP THAKKER: can v b a little more practical rajiv_clarkson: the isopanisad's 4th mantra says that he is near yet he is too far PRATAP THAKKER: and view this q. in the context of today's age G Balasubramanian: Still others will say God is there in My Pooja room in Portraits rajiv_clarkson: meaning for people without devotion he is too far padswami: if we discuss the barriers and how to overcome that then we will know practically how to experience God's omnipresence rajiv_clarkson: devotion is the only way to know Him and where He resides G Balasubramanian: A new devotee of Swamy will say God is presently in earth in human form at Puttaparthy rajiv_clarkson: Naaham Vasaami Vaikunthe, Yoginaam hridaye na cha, G Balasubramanian: Only an Evolved Devotee will say that God is everywhere rajiv_clarkson: madbhaktaa yatra gaayantey,tatra tishthaami naarada G Balasubramanian: God is in youall and in me padswami: form and name is starting point and gives us the focus , PRATAP THAKKER: hhmm G Balasubramanian: The entire Universe is manifeststion of God rajiv_clarkson: meaning neither in Vaikuntha, Nor in the Hearts of Yogis , bUt i reside where my Devotees sing /discuss my glories padswami: we all can get evolved but it manifests only some times... padswami: most of the time our mind blocks our awareness.. PRATAP THAKKER: wht abt chandra and Vikas PRATAP THAKKER: u 2 r really quiet anantvemuri: SAIRAM.. God is infinite, more scientifically infinite dimensional.. when we try to perceive him through our five senses we limit his understanding.. through love and devotion his omnipresence can be felt and understood. rajiv_clarkson: only thru love n devotion PRATAP THAKKER: yes vikas padswami: the problem we have we misinterpret love and devotion and so wer do not experience God... PRATAP THAKKER: nice suraj rajiv_clarkson: how do we misinterpret love n devotion anantvemuri: today's age love is only limited to bodily love.. when the body id gone it causes agony padswami: we think devotion is just singing bhajans.... G Balasubramanian: Swamy has said," there is only one God. He is omnipresent. God is the transcendantal Principle which Exists beyond the visible created world. It can not be found in the external world or in outer space but only within your soul , in the sacred heart inside your deepest Self. rajiv_clarkson: any work done keeping Him in mind is true devotion padswami: love is only body lovin Geetha vahinin swami says even charity as love is not enough...e and sense love as perceived anantvemuri: and devotion is interpreted as offering money at mandirs.. or doing pooja at home regularly rajiv_clarkson: be it household chores(the Gopikas are a great example) or lab work padswami: Ananya chintayanthoma....without any other thought... PRATAP THAKKER: lets try to focus the varied answers for the prime question of today. PRATAP THAKKER: padswami..can u summurise the answers in serial order anantvemuri: SAIRAM Sisiters and Brothers please let Pratap guide the talk with each one speaking in turns.. one after the other G Balasubramanian: It is there that the blissful Lord resides. The body is the temple of the Lord.(Deho Devaalaya Proktah) rajiv_clarkson: i think everyone has the same answers, just penned differently...it is the bhaava that counts PRATAP THAKKER: right PRATAP THAKKER: would it help if v summarise it? anantvemuri: yes.. PRATAP THAKKER: do u think v shall b more focused hen? rajiv_clarkson: yes PRATAP THAKKER: ok PRATAP THAKKER: lets re-capitulate PRATAP THAKKER: 1. god is everywhere padswami: I think we should do this like study circle, prathap asking q . and we all give our understanding and then we get picture form different angle and we get more knowledge PRATAP THAKKER: lets continue PRATAP THAKKER: u may add points PRATAP THAKKER: 2.God is superconscience padswami: God is in every being G Balasubramanian: Seek the Lord inside your own body, says Swamy.Swamy Vivekananda says, God is in the poor, in the weak,and in the deceased. He worships God if he sees God in all. He who wants to serve God must love all creatures in this world first. PRATAP THAKKER: 3. he is near yet he is too far rajiv_clarkson: 3.He can be realized only with true love n devotion G Balasubramanian: He is always in the heart of every one PRATAP THAKKER: 4.devotion is the only way to know Him and where He resides padswami: Our mind blocks our relaisation and experiencing God G Balasubramanian: Ther is no place where he is not. PRATAP THAKKER: 5.The entire Universe is manifeststion of God PRATAP THAKKER: 6.neither in Vaikuntha, Nor in the Hearts of Yogis , bUt i reside where my Devotees sing /discuss my glories padswami: God is in our heart padswami: God is in this Satsangh PRATAP THAKKER: 7.through love and devotion his omnipresence can be felt and understood. rajiv_clarkson: 8.selfless service to the needy is good way of God realization PRATAP THAKKER: 9.in the sacred heart inside your deepest Self G Balasubramanian: I, you, this world are all parts of God, who permeates all animate and inanimate objects in the world.The man who helps us is God and the one whom we help is also God. padswami: 10."Look back and thank God Look ahead and trust God Look around and serve God Look inside and see God." PRATAP THAKKER: 11.The body is the temple of the Lord.(Deho Devaalaya Proktah) G Balasubramanian: In the Vedic Vision the whole world which is full of forms is Iswara or God. padswami: 12.Iswasyam idamm jagat ...God is that is what upanishad declares PRATAP THAKKER: very good participation till now PRATAP THAKKER: now lets restrict our discussions to these 12 points G Balasubramanian: The Isavasya Uanishad in its very opening Mantra says, "The whole universe is inhabited by God and it belongs to HIM PRATAP THAKKER: n elaborate on them rajiv_clarkson: God is Sat-Chit-Ananda...the Supreme Bliss..(difference b/w sukha and ananda..the former is material pleasure,pleasure for sense gratification the latter is Bliss) padswami: good and practically how we can implement them padswami: in day to day life so we can experience god PRATAP THAKKER: so that before v all leave v all undserstand the same thing in the same sense rajiv_clarkson: first we have to be selfless anantvemuri: SAIRAM.. nice point.. lets start by pondering on what love means in daily life G Balasubramanian: The same Upanishad also says, God is far and near. It is inside and outside all this. He has occupied all and is all-pervading PRATAP THAKKER: yes padswami: Love means to me being for others , doing for others rajiv_clarkson: we have to forget to think about me as the body PRATAP THAKKER: wht LOVE means? in daily life rajiv_clarkson: seeing Him in everyone rajiv_clarkson: in every action rajiv_clarkson: in every incident PRATAP THAKKER: yes rajiv PRATAP THAKKER: in today's age in the daily routine of a devotee how is thisi practicable PRATAP THAKKER: can v elaborate a little more rajiv_clarkson: feeling His presence 24 into 7 anantvemuri: LOVE is to also to see Him in our Duty rajiv_clarkson: constant reminders anantvemuri: Prayer can be through completing our Duty anantvemuri: hence LOVE God by telling Him I do this out of my LOVE to you anantvemuri: even when mind or senses dont like it.. PRATAP THAKKER: suraj..go on rajiv_clarkson: for the beginning have great quatations and pictures in your room and office...or things that constantly Remind u of Him PRATAP THAKKER: ok rajiv PRATAP THAKKER: v r zeroing now on " love as the media to search for god" G Balasubramanian: The Svetasvara Upanishad of Yajurveda declares, " God Himself is fire,sun, air,moon and the starry firmament. That is the Brahman. That is the waters. God is the woman, the man, the youth, the maiden and the old man who totters along leaning on the staff. He is having faces turned in all directions. He is the butterfly and the green parrot. He is the thunder-cloud, the oceans..... PRATAP THAKKER: lets discuss this rajiv_clarkson: Then try and focus or feel His presence in everyone around you rajiv_clarkson: irreewspective of "friend" or "foe" PRATAP THAKKER: yes rajiv PRATAP THAKKER: v all should practce that PRATAP THAKKER: but in daily chores...wht happens? rajiv_clarkson: i know its very difficult rajiv_clarkson: ego comes in the way PRATAP THAKKER: wht r the difficulties? PRATAP THAKKER: can v b bit more specific? rajiv_clarkson: we forget His omnipresence PRATAP THAKKER: how ego prevents love? PRATAP THAKKER: in daily life rajiv_clarkson: EGO is edging God out...God is Love PRATAP THAKKER: ... rajiv_clarkson: in daily life, we see others different from us due to ego anantvemuri: When in daily life mind assumes its authority as the doer of action .. it forgets LOVE and attains EGO rajiv_clarkson: we do not see the manifestation of God everywhere PRATAP THAKKER: yes G Balasubramanian: The Purusha Sooktam describes the Supreme being as having thousands of heas etc. It also says, the Purusha or God is all that has been and that will be. All beings make up only one-quarter of Him. Three quarters of Him, which are immortal are in the Heaven. Isvara or God is the body as well as the soul of the world rajiv_clarkson: How nice if we could see God even in our foes PRATAP THAKKER: suraj...how do v prevent mind from assuming the authority? PRATAP THAKKER: or do v have to prevent it alll? anantvemuri: SILENCE PRATAP THAKKER: yes anantvemuri: SILENCE lets God Speak PRATAP THAKKER: all the time? anantvemuri: Unless until spoken to.. Maintain SILENCE rajiv_clarkson: for a person elevated in the path of devotion, silence is possible.. G Balasubramanian: The Rig veda describes God as having eyes.faces,hands and feet everywher. Thus all eyes,ears .faces, hands and legs are His. G Balasubramanian: Gos Has embodied himself in creation rajiv_clarkson: but for a common man,ego takes away wisdom and a person loses control over his speech rajiv_clarkson: how to practice silence PRATAP THAKKER: V ARE NOW ON : "GOD IS EVERY WHERE.....BUT HE CAN B EXPERIENCED ONLY WITH LOVE........EGO IS THE HURDLE.." rajiv_clarkson: not just external silence but inner peace too Pranav Jonnavithula25: No, thank you. Yahoo! Messenger with Voice: Pranav Jonnavithula25 has declined to join. rajiv_clarkson: yes...suraj can you throw a little light on my questions PRATAP THAKKER: silence = Sai lense anantvemuri: SAIRAM.. I WILL BE RIGHT BACK.. rajiv_clarkson: wow G Balasubramanian: In the 10th Chapter of the Bhagawad Geeta, Srikrishna says, Ahamatam gudakesa sarvabhutasayasthitah. It means I am seated as the Self of all beings PRATAP THAKKER: nice rajiv_clarkson: but how soon we forget this rajiv_clarkson: we don not see him seated in everyone PRATAP THAKKER: PRATAP THAKKER: V ARE NOW ON : "GOD IS EVERY WHERE.....BUT HE CAN B EXPERIENCED ONLY WITH LOVE........EGO IS THE HURDLE.." PRATAP THAKKER: lets continue rajiv_clarkson: otherwise there would be prema only PRATAP THAKKER: how ego is the hurdle anantvemuri: SAIRAM.. initially SILENCE must be practiced as an extreme.. rajiv_clarkson: no jealousy, no selfishness, no ego PRATAP THAKKER: how v can overcom ego PRATAP THAKKER: and realsie god padswami: ego puts i first padswami: when ego come s He goes PRATAP THAKKER: yes G Balasubramanian: Again in the 8th Chapter the LOrd says, "Puruashascha......... athra dehe dehabritam vara . It means that the Supreme Divine is in the body as indwelling spirit and as the inner witness padswami: develop habit for othesr first , PRATAP THAKKER: v r now on the practical difficulties in day to day life PRATAP THAKKER: philosophycally v all understand and agre padswami: ego comes due to desire , selfishness, and pride and attachment rajiv_clarkson: maybe if we listen to our conscience within..it can guide us to overcome ego padswami: so we have to learn to let gio.. PRATAP THAKKER: how? G Balasubramanian: In 18th Chapter, Isvaras sarva Bhutanam hriddese tishtathi arjuna. It means , God dwells in the heart of all G Balasubramanian: A number of scriptural references can be added padswami: if we start accepting anything that happens as His will and start with th most difficult person where ego clashes take place and look at what all He /She does as will of God and His prasad , we will let ego go rajiv_clarkson: let go of selfishness first PRATAP THAKKER: hhmm.. padswami: once we have done this for one person the most egoistic in our life we will eb able to do this with everyone rajiv_clarkson: very good point padswami padswami: i have practiced this and take up one person perv eyar and it works anantvemuri: SAIRAM.. EGO's biggest weapon is Tongue.. Tame that first PRATAP THAKKER: yes padswami: and as swami says we will recognise ego only if we have teh same defect or fault PRATAP THAKKER: nice rajiv_clarkson: true PRATAP THAKKER: speak softly padswami: and one of the thing we need to do is talk less, listen more PRATAP THAKKER: speak lovingly PRATAP THAKKER: speak after a pause rajiv_clarkson: so taming the tongue should be our first goal PRATAP THAKKER: speak wht u intend to do PRATAP THAKKER: speak the truth PRATAP THAKKER: speak only WHEN REQUIRED rajiv_clarkson: always have His name on your tongue PRATAP THAKKER: this is " VAAK TAPAS" anantvemuri: Even in that padswami: fisrt is do dialy meditation nd seek god;s help to be with us , and speak , do tell thru us and seek his help it works wonders anantvemuri: first Step is to SPEAK Lovingly rajiv_clarkson: vaak tapas is the greatest tapas padswami: true anantvemuri: or in the very beginning.. Dont Speak at all as an extreme anantvemuri: that tells the mind.. I am serious.. you need to GO.. rajiv_clarkson: only devotion for Him can give rise to love for all rajiv_clarkson: good point Suraj G Balasubramanian: Love is God and God is love PRATAP THAKKER: vaak maunam leads to Mano maunam (stopping the inner dialogue with self) rajiv_clarkson: once the mind is gone we can hear the conscience PRATAP THAKKER: this eventually leads to Maha maunam= total silense padswami: we have to intensify Namasmarana, meditation, and practice spiritual silence , and do one loving act selflessly per day then we will see beauty and love and god surrounding us rajiv_clarkson: probably in mano maunam G Balasubramanian: Godliness manifests wherever love, Seva etc. are prominent G Balasubramanian: SAI RAM, are we not off the track? PRATAP THAKKER: v r now on.... G Balasubramanian: Let us come back to the topic of the day rajiv_clarkson: no i do not think so padswami: i prayb to swami when evr w ehave projects that when it is succesful let my ego not come ..you are only doing swanmi PRATAP THAKKER: PRATAP THAKKER: V ARE NOW ON : "GOD IS EVERY WHERE.....BUT HE CAN B EXPERIENCED ONLY WITH LOVE........EGO IS THE HURDLE.." G Balasubramanian: Ego is the shadow self padswami: accpet swami is doing and making tghinsg hapen then ego does not arise. rajiv_clarkson: its easy to accept and attribute any wrongdoings to Swami/God G Balasubramanian: If we can surrender our ego, Love will automatically flow PRATAP THAKKER: how ego is the hurdle?how v can overcom ego? PRATAP THAKKER: is this discussion ok Balu uncle? rajiv_clarkson: but when we have an achievement ego comes in G Balasubramanian: I think we have slightly detoured G Balasubramanian: But it is ok PRATAP THAKKER: pls correct us PRATAP THAKKER: v have so far concluded: 1 God is every where G Balasubramanian: Our focus was on 'Where is God" PRATAP THAKKER: 2. He can b realised by Love PRATAP THAKKER: 3. Ego prevents flow of love G Balasubramanian: I tried to remain within that boundary. PRATAP THAKKER: now... G Balasubramanian: But this is a useful discussion PRATAP THAKKER: how ego is the hurdle?how v can overcom ego? G Balasubramanian: Ego can be overcome through SEVA rajiv_clarkson: Poorna Samarpan...fully attributing everything to Him rajiv_clarkson: Seva without the greed for reward PRATAP THAKKER: right rajiv PRATAP THAKKER: but easier said than done G Balasubramanian: Unless we dedicte all actions to God ego will not vanish PRATAP THAKKER: Seva...ahh PRATAP THAKKER: this is it PRATAP THAKKER: lets now discuss on how seva leads to annihilation of ego G Balasubramanian: Let us do actions in a detached spirit rajiv_clarkson: good thoughts r always uphill..uphill taska r always difficult rajiv_clarkson: easy to dirty clothes..difficult to wash PRATAP THAKKER: and bringing back of stream of love PRATAP THAKKER: and realsie god G Balasubramanian: I am not the doer. I am only an instrument of action, should be the thinking rajiv_clarkson: yes PRATAP THAKKER: ye s Sir PRATAP THAKKER: wht if my junior is given more resposiblity and i m asked jsut to help him? G Balasubramanian: Let us do actions but leave the result to Swamy in a samarpana bhavam rajiv_clarkson: thoughts like He is the Doer, he is the one accepting the Seva G Balasubramanian: Once the Kartrutva Bhava is absent God will accept whatever we do rajiv_clarkson: Think it as u'r duty given 2 u by God,pratap sunitha pl has joined the conference. sunitha pl: sairam PRATAP THAKKER: sairam sirs PRATAP THAKKER: my question remains unanswered G Balasubramanian: Ego is nothing a combination of Kartritava and boktritva bhavas rajiv_clarkson: well said G Balasubramanian: I am the doer, I am the knower and I am the enjoyer feelings constitute Ego PRATAP THAKKER: wht if my junior is given more resposiblity and i m asked jsut to help him? PRATAP THAKKER: how will I re-act? rajiv_clarkson: Think it as u'r duty given 2 u by God,pratap PRATAP THAKKER: will ego get the better of me? PRATAP THAKKER: or will I b able to overcom? rajiv_clarkson: Ego will certainly try to intervene PRATAP THAKKER: lets all b honest to ourselves rajiv_clarkson: But only with His help can u overcome ego G Balasubramanian: If only we can cultivate the thinking that I am only an instrument and that the real doer, enjoyer, and knower is Swamy ego can be minimised, if not completely uprooted anantvemuri: SAIRAM.. Brother Pratap.. We try to seek happiness in the world outside.. we think that there is something to achieve.. less worldly responsibility means more time for thinking and working for Swami PRATAP THAKKER: and re capitulate instances in our life so far rajiv_clarkson: i always ask for His help whenever i'm stuck and trust me He helps PRATAP THAKKER: yes suraj....so? G Balasubramanian: Detached action is the only answer for offsetting Ego PRATAP THAKKER: SAIRAM : V HAVE ONLY A COUPLE OF MINS LEFT.. anantvemuri: So therein the EGo is killed rajiv_clarkson: Offering all actions to God.thinking Him to be the doer,helps to kill ego PRATAP THAKKER: yes rajiv PRATAP THAKKER: v all agree PRATAP THAKKER: how far v can implement in our lives? G Balasubramanian: Sai Ram, There we all have agreed PRATAP THAKKER: when things go wrong..as they sometimes will.. PRATAP THAKKER: wht happens then? G Balasubramanian: Really putting things in practice is a challenge PRATAP THAKKER: yes rajiv_clarkson: Hmmm..its easier to remember God then rajiv_clarkson: in dukha G Balasubramanian: WE need to invoke God`s grace PRATAP THAKKER: and v have to win the challenge ..by our prayers to Swami G Balasubramanian: And surrender to him rajiv_clarkson: its only in joy that we tend to lose Him and embrace Ego PRATAP THAKKER: yes rajiv G Balasubramanian: Well said rajiv_clarkson: if we can invoke his Grace PRATAP THAKKER: lets close this on a note that v all PRAY TO OUR MOST BELOVED LORD OF LORDS rajiv_clarkson: to be in a state of equanimity G Balasubramanian: Shall we end the Satsang ? PRATAP THAKKER: TO AHOWER HIS GRACE ON ALL OF US G Balasubramanian: With some prayer PRATAP THAKKER: AND HELP US IN RESTRAINING OUR EGO PRATAP THAKKER: AND EVENTUALLY DIMINISHING IT TO A ATOM SIZE PRATAP THAKKER: SO THAT THE FLOW OF LOVE IS UNOBSTURCTED PRATAP THAKKER: AND GOD CAN B REALSIED PRATAP THAKKER: YES??? anantvemuri: SAIRAM yes .. we may close with a prayer rajiv_clarkson: Lokaa samastaa sukhino bhavantu PRATAP THAKKER: YES PRATAP THAKKER: 1 AUM PRATAP THAKKER: AND 3 SHANTIS PRATAP THAKKER: AS USUSAL rajiv_clarkson: Om shantih,shantih shantihi sunitha pl has left the conference. G Balasubramanian: If we can activate voice all can chat together PRATAP THAKKER: Auuummmmmmmmmmmmm..................... PRATAP THAKKER: Shaaaaaantiiiiiiiiiiiiiii...................................... PRATAP THAKKER: Shaaaaaaaaannntiiiii................................... Rajiv Narula has left the conference. PRATAP THAKKER: Shaaaanti..hi..... G Balasubramanian: SAI RAM to one and all PRATAP THAKKER: sairams anantvemuri: SAIRAM PRATAP THAKKER: REMEMBER G Balasubramanian: Next week`s Satsang? PRATAP THAKKER: NEXT THURSDAY G Balasubramanian: Topic? PRATAP THAKKER: SAME TIME PRATAP THAKKER: 10.00 TO 11.00 PRATAP THAKKER: TOPIC WILL B CONTINUATION..." HOW TO OVERCOME EGO " PRATAP THAKKER: OK? G Balasubramanian: Good PRATAP THAKKER: WHT IS EGO anantvemuri: SAIRAM YES.. G Balasubramanian: Sai Ram, I agree PRATAP THAKKER: HOW IS IT HINDRANCE PRATAP THAKKER: HOW V CAN OVERCOM? PRATAP THAKKER: OK? G Balasubramanian: Exactly PRATAP THAKKER: SAIRAMS G Balasubramanian: Sai Ram PRATAP THAKKER: INVITE ALL U KNOW G Balasubramanian: Sai Rams Suraj Vemuri has left the conference. G Balasubramanian: Sure G Balasubramanian: Sai Rams padswami: work is worship duty is god let us remeber that also padswami: sairam G Balasubramanian: later pl. G Balasubramanian: Sai Ram Meena Motwani: sairam G Balasubramanian: OK Sai Ram again padswami: Sure padswami: Sairam G Balasubramanian has left the conference. padswami has left the conference.